Ono : "Why do you record?" The purpose of recreating it from a later time is "experience beyond time and space", as if you were mistaken for being there. Archiving (*38) Can be heard because there was left. However, since the concept of "good sound" is different for each individual, it is difficult to deliver "good recording" to everyone. However, with the current technology, we are now in a situation where almost unlimited sampling and recording are possible. If you record with the highest resolution (that is HDD capacity Pro Tools (*39) (Some models require two or three), but it is easy to drop them later.

Sakamoto : The project I'm trying to do now How many bits and how many rates (*40) I often think about whether to do it, but it is a difficult problem. In terms of reproducibility of sound, the vibration of the air that is sounding in a certain space is recorded with a microphone, converted in a certain way, and recorded in a certain medium, but there are many steps in between, and depending on that, Also changes the sound. Even if you say digital, the sound changes with just one cable. In addition, microphones have their limits.

Ono : The physical microphone and speaker Transducer (*41) Has not yet reached the ideal value because there are still ambiguous parts (though it is also the characteristic of the transducer, coloring).

Sakamoto : The problem is a lot, but on the other hand, Digital desk (*42) Whenever comes out, there are always people who say, "I hear the sound of the table," or "How many bits do you make?" I've been living for 58 years, and I've never met such a nice person. I've only met two people who are completely audible, physically audible, and audible to me. (Problem) The difference in the performance of music itself and the difference in the sound of the room are much larger than that difference.

Ono : That's right. Like the location of the microphone, which is spatial information.

Sakamoto : Yeah. Microphone position.

Ono : And the feeling of the performer.

Sakamoto : Yes. Feelings that come out of here (pointing to the chest). Also, the performance itself is good and bad, and the sound of musical instruments.

Ono ：It is very important to put on a musician as a major premise of good recording.

Sakamoto : Yeah.

Ono : At the same time as recording, depending on the position of the microphone, moderate tension and relaxation at the same time.

Sakamoto : Right. The range of goodness and badness is much larger.

Ono : It's much larger than the specifications of the recorder.

Sakamoto : (Laughs) 16-bit or 24-bit, for example EQ (*43) If you add this amount (a little) or not, it will greatly affect the sound quality. Therefore, I always feel that many people are not able to keep up even if they become too detailed. That's why it's interesting to have a scientific, technical quest. I don't dislike it, but I don't think everyone can keep up with it.

Ono : Well, I want you to do your best in the scientific and physical parts. However, even if we are at the cutting edge, we cannot satisfy everyone in the world.

Sakamoto : I can't.

Ono : There is no average sound for everyone. But people with good ears are good.

Sakamoto : And there is one interesting story. Musik Electronic Geisin (*44) (Musikelectronic Geithain) Joachim Kiesler is a genius president. The person making that speaker. Since he was a boy Spectrum (*45) He seems to have a special ability to see.

Ono : I can see the sound.

Sakamoto : I met last year after Leipzig's concert, but since I was a former East German company, I was lucky to have no capitalist competition.

Ono : Sun record (*46) Article (December 2009 issue) was good. Speaker workshop.

Sakamoto : I could not say that I couldn't afford research expenses unless I could sell it to everyone. "I've been able to do decades of research in a very blessed environment, and I have done that," he said. I thought it was true. After all, there is a part that goes forward because of the environment of socialism.

Ono : Are you making something for concerts?

Sakamoto : Still it seems to be in the middle. Me too PA (*47) I'd like to use it quickly, but it seems that it will take a little longer.

Ono : He said the microphone DPA (*48) "of For measurement (*49) I wonder?

Sakamoto What are you using?

Ono : It would be ideal if the transducer in and out were completely equal. It would be ideal if there was no visual or auditory space in between.

Sakamoto :Yes Yes. exactly. Joachim is great. What do you think the first words I said right after the concert ended?

Ono : Hmm? As a fan of Sakamoto-san, were you moved by watching it live? Is that right?

Sakamoto : No. It was the first time we met each other, though. Until then, Geizain's speaker had never been used in a concert, and he also heard it for the first time (as used in PA). "Oh! There was no speaker sound! I was hugging!

Ono : Oh! Moving! It is an ideal PA.

Sakamoto : I thought it was a great guy. And that's exactly what I was looking for.

Ono : I would like to have recordings too. Transparents (*50) . I don't add anything other than the good sound that comes out there. Even so, the audience at Leipzig was purely wrapped in Sakamoto's music. The volume is loud, but I don't feel the PA. Ideally, the speakers should not be colored.

Ono : You're right. Bravo.

Sakamoto : He said that. There was no sound from the speakers. Isn't that the ultimate ideal for making speakers? He knows that. I also want it. I was impressed.

Ono : That's exactly what I wanted.
I think it should be. Recording without the sound of the recorder. Just time-shifting the live, an experience beyond time and space.

Sakamoto : That's right.

Ono : It's a live performance, and it's such a level that you can mistake it. Do you say that the limit value is that the two earliest people in the world misunderstand? That is the limit of human hearing. If we can record and play back at that level, we can say that we can cover everybody's hearing. Furthermore, if various types are prepared there, it can be adapted to the individual taste.

Sakamoto : Limit value. That's right. Record up to the limit value, then you can like it. On the contrary, it is easy to distort. Somewhere, such as adding or shaving. Therefore, recording the vibration of the air is the ultimate form.

Ono : that's right.

Sakamoto : This is a revolution when we think of recordings that record air vibrations in a molecular state.

Ono : That's right. Match it with the information that corresponds to the position of the microphone.

Sakamoto : Then, the information on the molecular state can be sent on the net, so the vibration is instant. From one place to another.

Ono : It's okay to shift in real time or place and time.

Sakamoto : It means that time or space can be reproduced after the first century or the tenth century. Oh dear, Karajan (*51) Died, or even 1000 years later. Berlin Philharmonic (*52) Noh, the sound of the theater over there will be "live" even after 1000 years, as vibrations of the air.

Ono : The other day at a symposium on archiving at Waseda University, Yoshio Yamazaki (*53) With teacher Sakuji Yoshimura (*54) An interesting story from the teacher, "If you slide the stone of the pyramid with the shouts of thousands of people in Ayanja Cola, the ripples of the sound are engraved like the groove of the record on the trail that dragged the stone." The idea is that if you remove the noise, you can bring out the voice.

Sakamoto : In that sense, the vibration of the birth of the universe and the explosion of the Big Bang is actually flowing in the universe, that is, it is memorized in the space.

Ono : How do you reproduce from the past track? Just 27 years ago, my first job as an engineer as a freelance was " Merry Christmas on the battlefield (*55) "was.

Sakamoto : Acoustic house (*56) Was it?

Ono : It was only for 2 years, but it was Yumin's Surf and snow (*57) 』I was only. After that Super studio (*58) so Shinichi Tanaka (*59) I was with you. Sakamoto, Yasuaki Shimizu (*60) San Katsumi Watanabe (*61) San Tomonori Kondo (*62) I was lucky to be able to connect with genius and unique people. Overseas Bill Laswell (*63) , John Zone (*64) , Lounge lizard (*65) And not only recording but also PA for the tour.

Sakamoto : now Mastering (*66) There are many?

Ono : Yes. For mastering and recording, I just want to provide pure technology. That's why I didn't put my color at all. I wish I could finish it so that only the performance of the artist could be seen. The studio is the back of JVC. Mr. Onuma has come several times.

Sakamoto : I heard you eat swordfish together.

Ono : Oh, that. Home-made overnight dried "Swordfish Daikon sushi". Please come and visit us.

Sakamoto : Have you been to Brazil lately?

Ono : I haven't been there a lot, but this year I'm going to record my own music, but on the contrary, it's very personal. Earlier Yamaha's "CP1" piano (*67) , I also touched it at a store in Shibuya, and the sampling is very good. To make an instrument or recorder, you need both a performer and a scientist, so a pair of socks is also useful. With Yamaha's technology, I think that it is possible to reproduce the pronunciation and sound in a three-dimensional manner, like in an actual space.

Sakamoto : After all, sound is a vibration of the air in a certain space, so it's not a mechanical simulator, but it's like a supercomputer, and I'd like to record all the movements of molecules.

Ono : I agree.

Sakamoto : Well, now you can...

Ono : Japan is a technology that can lead the world and can be used for commercialization immediately, but marketing is inevitably prioritized, and while hesitating after many meetings, when it comes to commercialization, it will be ahead of Korea and China. There are many cases where it ends up. Of sound in all directions of space Early reflection (*68) Not only 2nd and 3rd order, but also up to about 7th order for lighting design, and weaving in diffusion and material for each frequency band, and in this way, it will be like real-time processing of 3D video in parallel with multi , I think it would be possible to add some memory to CELL. Alternatively, connect the holes with an optical line and reproduce the vibration of the air in one space that I mentioned earlier in another hole. Of course, not only the transducer but also the spatial information (such as the sound) peculiar to each hall is eliminated. I heard from an OB of YAMAHA that there are over 3000 concert halls with more than 600 seats in Japan.

Sakamoto : I like that kind of technology and I think it's important. To add one thing, the appeal of music is not, of course, the equality of the sound quality "the charm of music." Takemitsu (*69) Mr. Takemitsu's example is often said, but when Mr. Takemitsu sounded an air raid warning (was it?) when he was a boy and entered an air defense shelter, the officer who happened to be with him happened to like French chanson and is hostile music. .. At the time, at 78 rpm, I heard the chanson and said, "I was shook with the comfort and pleasure of the music." It sounds bad. S/N (*70) It's bad, but the goodness of music is really transmitted. Therefore, it is interesting that the goodness of S/N is not the goodness of equal music at all.

Ono : It's a resolution because it has masterpieces, performances, and context. I talked too much and had a conversation... Thank you very much for today.