Junichi Konuma The reason why I started "schola" is that nowadays, with the spread of the Internet, anyone can easily access all kinds of music information, and music is flooding the world. All kinds of music will be put up before the chaotic indiscriminate juxtaposition.

Ryuichi Sakamoto: Schola is a Latin word for school "school". It's not about compelling "musicology" or rigid "music listening." We aim to be free from such things. It would be great if we could share the joy of music broader and deeper by recreating the standards that everyone can share, rather than staying in the world of their own taste. Be positive here. Have fun studying.

Onuma: I'm an old man, too (older ones are younger people), "Younger people say rock, but..." A jazz-loving father said, "The younger people don't even know Miles..." I have something to say. There were times when I did not know (or) deliberately ignored the past and thought of doing something new, or when I knew and denied. On the contrary, many young people don't know (in the past), which is a bit of a catch.
Yuji Takahashi(*16) I asked him, "Why do I need to know?" Yuji is a composer and pianist, and he writes a lot of interesting books. There are various rules such as the progress of harmony. Of course, there is an idea that you shouldn't know. But there, "If you know, you can avoid using it." It was a quick thought. Oh, a nice melody came up! ? He might hum, write and sing. Maybe it's because someone made it long ago. It may be a little talented if you don't really know about it and float naturally. But if you knew (from another person's point of view) it would have already been done. It made me think again about what I know and what I don't know.

Sakamoto: Knowing a lot, there are really few things that haven't been done (yet).

Onuma: That's right.

Sakamoto: Is there anything left to do? It's been around for the last 2000 years or so, even if it's underestimated or just known. What's more, if we all know it all, what can we do? It also means that. It's embarrassing that I didn't know (that made this) myself.

Onuma: Just in the 80's, everything was exhausted, and then I collage it. Post modern(*17) I was told.

Sakamoto: There was a time when it was said not only in music but in architecture and all media. Just After YMO disbanded(*18) Since that has happened, everything is already done, so it is postmodern how to combine various styles that jump over the times. Also, that time has passed. It's a difficult time now, but what should I make?

Onuma: Now, we are free to listen to various things on the Internet. The situation is that some historical awareness has been lost. On the contrary, there are situations where you know one thing but don't know what's happening next door. Classical music was once called the so-called high culture. However, as a situation, classical music has been created and enjoyed while always being mixed with popular music. By the way, it is equivalent, but of course, there is value, or "good thing" "boring thing", and it may be that someone teaches me, but "ear to judge by myself". I wonder. That's what we need. At that time, if you accumulate one judgment criterion, such kind of things, you will acquire the sensitivity and knowledge by yourself. I think there is "schola" as such a thing.

Sakamoto: What you have now is not something that you can do now, but it is built on the accumulation of hundreds and thousands of years. I also make music, but the part that I invented is 5% of a song. About 95% are people who have accumulated collectively. In other words, it's a chord and a melody on top of it. It hasn't changed much from the days of Bach. Even Bach was not created by Bach alone, but only on the basis of hundreds of years of his predecessors. It's not just classical, rock and pop, but any genre. It's best to know what your predecessors have done, and then create your own personality or what you want to do.

Onuma: Now, 12 octaves. You may think that this lineup is commonplace, but it's outrageous.

Sakamoto: The frequency of the octave is doubled. This (La♪) is shaking 440 times per second. It doubles at octave and is 880. There are physically infinite numbers including the decimal point, but humans make scales in the octave with a very rough guide, such as 5, 7, or 12. There are various (scale) variations. Homo sapiens have evolved from forests in East Africa, such as 7 million years ago, but the current theory is that this is the condition under which it does not have to be so detailed. Perhaps gorillas, chimpanzees, birds live in an environment of forests, and whales that live in water, perhaps even perceiving sound with a much finer standard than we do. There are only 12 so the combinations are quite limited. Therefore, it is often the case that the song 100 years ago is similar to the song just made.

Onuma: There is one string, and if you divide it in half, you get an octave, and if you divide it in two-thirds, it becomes a 5th sound.

Sakamoto: The discovery of Octave and the discovery of Fifth is important. Just four thousand years ago, the Jomon people lived in the same Japanese archipelago as us, and felt that the god of heaven was angry when there was a thunder and the god of water was angry when there was a flood. I think. There is also the word “onrei” for sounds, but you have that kind of sensitivity. One time, when I found that the sound was resonating when I just pressed the middle of the string, I went from a mythical feeling of sound to a kind of mathematical, physical feeling, from there to operation. Is starting.

Onuma: From that point of view, you may have come up with the idea of compose.

Sakamoto: This is from Central Africa (pygmy(※twenty one) Music♪). It sounds simple, but the pattern is decided by two or more people.

Onuma: Actually, it's complicated and sophisticated music, but for a long time, it was inferior to Westerners.

Sakamoto: That's right. Westerners didn't understand this wonder (laughs). In the 20th century, everyone finally realized the wonderfulness of such things, Steve Reich(※twenty two) And Terry riley(※twenty three) Toka studied African and Asian music, Minimalism(※twenty four) Cool (I started). When I entered university from high school, this was the avant-garde. When the same melody shifts, you will hear different melody. That's what Western music is... from Pygmy in Africa (skipping) into modern music (laughs).

Onuma: (Yes.) From the perspective of Westerners, I always thought that Western classical music was the most wonderful music, but from the 19th century to the 20th century, cultural anthropology and folklore developed, So you get interested in music in cultures other than yourself. At that time, many thought it was inferior. However, as a result of cultural anthropology and ethnomusicology, nowadays various kinds of music are recognized, and it has become a matter of course that every music has a certain value.

Onuma: What is used in Bach, whether it's classical or contemporary music, or a variety of popular music, is that the materials used are all in Bach, or are there?

Sakamoto: Almost there is jazz or pop. America's Gozpel(※twenty five) Somehow Subdominant to dominant, tonic (*26) Going to is close to Morbach. Although there is no progress from dominant to subdominant. Often used in locks, so-called Weak progress (*27) I don't think (though it shouldn't be in the classical world). It is long before Bach. Bach died in 1750, in the middle of the 18th century. So-called Classical school (*28), Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven, are about to move into that era.

Onuma: Harmony. Move the chords along the time axis to line up the chords. There are many rules. Although it collapses and becomes the present.

Onuma: Actually, there are various kinds of music, and when you listened to the pygmy you heard earlier, is this music? There may be people who think that. Like Reich, though. Our ears and sensibilities are dominated by paradigms, or things that we are used to in various ways. It's a little different if you think you are free.

Sakamoto: There are many things that I think are common sense not only in music but also in Japan, if I go to other countries and different cultures. Arab music also recognizes the sound between the semitones and semitones. Compared to the ears of Arab music, Western music that uses only 12 notes in one octave, like Mozart, sounds very simple.

Onuma: 150 years from Bach, about 1900, Debussy (*32), Ravel (*33), And jazz is about the same time. That is interesting. Various music changes took place in Debussy. Industrial revolution (*34) And Civil revolution (*35) Therefore, there were various changes. There were pianos in Bach's days, but with the industrial revolution, large iron frame pianos were created, and brass instruments were also invented by valves. Debussy comes out in such a situation. Impressionist (*36) Something. Until then, the painter used to draw outside the room, which he used to draw in the room. Water or wind, or something like that.

Sakamoto: What was not the subject of painting until then is drawn. This is also a big paradigm shift. It changed with the industrial revolution. There is also the aspect that music will change with the improvement of musical instruments. Who makes music Gadget (*37) Like? (Lol)

Onuma: Until then, Europe was culturally behind in comparison with Islamic countries. With the industrial revolution and other factors, digitalization, quantification, that is, the situation of measuring quantity has come.